Are you saying we all look alike.

He does have Presidential hair.

this just makes it that much easier for Obama to win his second term. Republicans are such a joke. hahahahaha

The fact that people would still vote for Obama after what he did to this country is beyond me. It is funny how the Dems complain about Romney's 1040'S while nobama has sealed college records(foreign student?) and no real birth certificate. One day years from now the truth will come out.

Why is Paul Ryan being called a "fiscal conservative"?
• He voted for TARP (increased National Debt $224 billion)
• He voted for two unfunded wars (increased National Debt $853 billion)
• He voted for Medicare Part D (increased National Debt $183 billion – as of 2011. Projected to be $400 billion thru 2018.)
• He voted for the Bush Tax Cuts (increased National Debt $1.7 trillion 2003-2008)
• He voted to extend Bush Tax cuts (increased National Debt $620 billion 2010-2012)
• He voted for the Farm Bill, the Highway Bill
• He voted for No Child
• He voted for the creation of TSA
• He voted for the creation of the Dept of Homeland Security
A lot of votes for increasing the size and cost ($3.58 trillion - so far) of government

Now Joe Biden is THE problem. What to do with this bumbler? Hillary?

Can't wait for the Ryan / Biden debate. should be a hoot.. Gaffe a minute Joe. "Say it ain't so Joe" : o

Seriously? Here is a prediction:

Liberals and MSNBC will declare Biden the winner.

Conservatives and FOX will declare Ryan the winner.

Independents won't even know because they didn't watch.

Don't over-think this. The only value a VP brings is super-likability / familiarity (Biden to Obama, because some white people needed that) or experience (Cheney). Most don't matter. Not sure Ryan brings either of those, although maybe some people turned off by the Mormonism feel better.

In your tea bag dreams!

Spot on sir:

"Seriously? Here is a prediction:

Liberals and MSNBC will declare Biden the winner.

Conservatives and FOX will declare Ryan the winner.

Independents won't even know because they didn't watch."

No one wins a debate anymore. Each side claims they won while most people watch the "Jersey Shore" or some other reality show.

Biden could be beaten by a mime.

Biden reminds me of the Public Defender in "My Cousin Vinnie".

Mrgrumpass, Biden dominated Sarah Palin in the 2008 VP Debate. Are you saying that Ms. Palin is dumber than a mime?

The role of the VP changed under Obama. It is Biden's job to put his foot in his mouth and day that Obama doesn't do so.

Biden - "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, there's still a 30% chance we're going to get it wrong."

Obama - "I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go"

Yeah, there are always great quotes to go around for every politician. Just don't keep it strictly to the Democrats because G.W. Bush has an entire book of them.

The VP doesn't do much unless the President is no longer with us.

How very true.And it's important to voters because even a healthy President could become ill or die in office.Perhaps if there had been a different VP candidate chosen in '08,there would be a different President in the White House now.

I think Nixon and Bush would disagree

Well although I agree the VP is irrelevant, He is not as irrelevant at you may think. He does serve as the tie breaker vote in the US Senate. Although after the games the Republicans played this year and the exposure they received as the millionaires panderers they have become, I suppose you are correct the VP will remain irrelevant no matter who the President is, unless anything happens to the sitting the President.

Hi Ellen
I agree. which team will not only get us out of the mess but also will prevent us from getting into the mess in the first place. Someone posted the deficit figures for Obama. How much of that is due to the wars that cannot be terminated overnight. How much of that was due to the tax break Bush gave to the richest 400 family friends Bush signed off. How much is due to debt service -- that is interest payments for the money previous US administrations borrowed. Not a single department in Obama admiinistration with the exception of Military has increased. So all of this talk and bashing Obama as a reckless spender is party line no brain attack. Facts are otherwise. Facts are there get them sum them up and understand where the govt spends the tax revenue it collects. Dont forget Obama collected less in tax revenue than prior years due to recession. Obama is fiscally responsible. His party label is different that is why all these rancor. I dont blame Hanity or Riley -- that is their job. the people who listen and do not think or do the homework and get riled up by party labels are to blame.

Paul Ryan is the author of the most extreme right-wing budget ever proposed in Congress. He wants to dismantle Medicare, privatize Social Security, and cut taxes for millionaires while raising taxes on the middle class.1

Exactly. We need a plan to start eradicating the crippling burden of debt we are passing on to our children.....
Obama had the entire Congress - House & Senate - for the first two years of his administration and he still couldn't come up with a plan. To be that inept means you are not up to the challenge.
Ryan is a finance guy.....he WILL have a plan and if we Americans are smart enough to listen we can turn this economy around...pay down the debt and create jobs.....our College/University graduates will have optimism restored and we, as a Country, will be moving forward.

KC has been listening to Harry Reid as he quoted the Liar in Chief. On Janurary 1st 2013 NObama will bankrupt Medicare when the Affordable Health Care Act strips $5,000,000,000 (Billion) from it and transfers 44 million seniors into Seniors Division Insurance Pools. There they will be subject to a payout test for every thing beyond asprin. Need a new hip, knee, heart and etc. well you'd better have at least ten working years for each twenty thousand of cost.
If Obama is reelected they will probably even change our name from America to The Soviet Socialist Republics of America.

Hi Ellen
if the economy were your car: If you are angry at the mechanic that charged too much and took too long to fix it; how can a reasonable response to that anger be to give the keys to the hooligans who stole it and wrecked it.

Yes, because the Republican appointed majority on the Supreme Court voted in favor of the Citizens United ruling. This allows unlimited donations to political candidates from corporations(even multi-national and foreign)without disclosure. It is important who we elect Obama-Biden 2012

I ditto that, Rebecca! Ryan is no conservative, for sure. He talks a good game, but he voted for ALL the bailouts, he voted for ALL the wars ...

We are all screwed. There's really no difference between the two puppets. The puppet masters will run the show and get what they intend to get. And if anyone really thinks their vote counts, I have a bridge to sell you. Go watch Hacking Democracy.

Maggie; with regard to the debt, the wars are inconsequential. Taken as a whole the debt, currently the debt 15.9 trillion, more than a trillion larger than the domestic product is, excluding Social Security Retirement because it is separately funded, 74.3% entitlements (Medicare, Medicaid, TANIF & etc.) 3.7% authorized government expansion (Costs are annually increased by 1% more than annual growth.). The remaining 22% pays for all the governments’ operations including “the Wars”. And Gene, given the way State Constitutions are written, since they stipulate how a corporation is formatted (For other than tax purposes.), examining that, the USSC’s logic is faultless. They are, legally, individuals and this limits how much they can give to an individual candidates, effectively, they are as limited as you or I. The real problem is the Special Issues Political Action Committees, the so called “Super Packs” whose funding often exceeds a third world country. Including donations and earnings the AARP PAC controls 10 billion and Move On (George Soros’ Socialist Pac) a half a trillion.

Touche, Joseph. The only area of the budget that the current administration feels "comfortable" with cutting is national defense despite the fact that entitlement spending is the primary source of our economic woes. It's interesting that the military involvements we currently find ourselves in were supported by a bulk of Democrats (Hillary included) until the political winds changed. We, however, are supposed to forget that detail. An honest discussion about our deficit cannot occur until the mathematics is delivered plainly and simply to the American public. I think that is Paul Ryan's strong suit and one that President Obama or Joe Biden couldn't tackle on their best days.

I hope everyone who comments here is aware of Ryan's voting record. He voted for all the Bush debt, including No Child Left Behind, voted for ALL the wars, ALL the bailouts, voted for the GM bailout (Government Motors), voted for the Patriot Act (allowing government to spy on Americans, surveillance without a warrant INDEFINITELY), voted for TARP, voted for the NDAA (you know, allowing assassination of American citizens anywhere in the world?), voted for both stimulus packages, and on and on. He also INCREASES the budget for military spending (the Military Industrial Complex spending - you know, to oversee all other countries and mind THEIR business - which is NOT defense spending), and is a total warmongering neocon nonconservative. AND he voted for keeping the troops in Iraq INDEFINITELY. Yup, perfect fit for Romney.

No, I am NOT an Obama fan ...

Joseph Herbert
10 billions a month tab is inconsequential? That is 10 billion not returned to China, Joseph. Instead of paying down the debt 10 billion a month we borrowed that money. We went and bombed the hell out of deserts and mountains. Cool Aid time?
And the interest on those borrowed, Joseph. Every solider that died is more than 1.5 million of training that USA lost for ever. Solider is too precious we cannot put a price, the 1.5 million is the training cost. Do we have a count ? What do you think is the cost of taking care of all those people who have been maimed in one way or another. Those two wars -- no one but Halliburton and defense complex benefited. Obama took out the SOB the smart way. May be 50 million tops. That is why I will vote for Obama, I hope they will count my vote.

simpletruth?
Dems don't blame Bush. You are missing the point. It's the whole trickle down waste from Reagan that NEVER worked. Change the channel

Oh Gene, you poor misguided soul, today we have a U4 unemployment (people collecting benefits) of 8.3% and a U6 unemployment (Total Unemployed) of 16.7% with an additional 7% under employed (People flipping burgers instead of doing their real jobs) with an annual growth rate of 1.34%. Obama has added 6.6 trillion dollars to the debt in 4 years, more than all preceding 43 presidents together. Under Reagan U4 was 4.8% and U6 was 6%, the annual growth was 6.3%. So please reveal your I.Q. tell us who would you rather have as president Obama or Reagan?

simple but where is the truth? Dont forget Ryan is WI? Kochland.

Gene, Let us pretend these guys love USA as much as we do. At least for that I wish Mitt and Ryan win. I am hoping they will learn Koch mechanics. If they love USA they will join us in 4 years. But I am not wasting my vote. I am tired of their lies since Nixon, Iran Contra, Savings and Loan Scandal...The last Bush did it for me. I am done. I will be the last Dem to fall. Lies and crooks.

But in the meantime I want to find workable solutions to fix the fiscal mess, runaway entitlement. When I become a senior I do not want these things from the gov. I want the gov to allow me to prepare for my own retirement. That is fair.

Monk.....
Look at the real numbers. Start with Republican corporate welfare for their outsourcing buddies.

Ken, The total public debt went up about 50%, not 100%. Here's some figures for you to chew on. The Obama administration started with $10,626,877,048,913.08 and as of Friday it was $15,915,814,457,919.46 for an increase of 49.8%. The first term of the G W Bush administration started with $5,727,776,738,304.64 and by this time in his first term his administration had $7,308,629,683,239.34 for an increase of 27.6%. The 2nd Bush administration started with $7,613,215,612,328.37 and reached $9,573,454,552,889.97 for an increase of 25.8%. (Courtesy of the Treasury Dept's Debt to the Penny online tool. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np)

The only thing you left out, was that the current budget now includes 2 unfunded wars,an unpaid for medicare part d prescription plan, and an unpaid for tax cut that favored the rich. These are NOW ON THE BOOKS under Obama. Go back to drinking something else.

Edward,
Amen!

Actually, the last two years. Additionally, everyone raves about the state of the economy under Clinton and seems to forget that Gingrich and company did all the work and forced Clinton's hand especially on welfare reform, a reform that Barry has now gutted. Work for welfare; that's just mean spirited.
Anyway, quit trying to confuse what passes here as dialog with the facts, Edward!

Paul - the Clinton years were actually a great example of what could happen when both parties cooperated. Reagan as well.

But how did Obama "gut" welfare reform, exactly? What states? Why?

Answer that question, and you'll see why your statement is false.

Edward, Parties can do nothing to stop the interest owed on the 15T or end the wars overnight. Bush gave 2T to rich people unfunded. Waged two wars which set us back 4T over the last 10 years (not counting the soliders who lost their lives-- which is immeasurable loss). And the billions of dollars sent to Haliburton, courtesy kickback time guess who via no-bid contracts. Add the interest owed and the cost of running the programs and wars Bush started. If I were jeb Bush I would change my last name. No other family has destroyed an entire nation as much as this one did, whether willfully or out of ignorance. Oil companies got to rewrite the contracts that Saddam had given to Total. We got nothing. What we got was the responsibility to foot the war bills. X-CEO of GS wrote 3 page letter asking for 700 Billion in TARP. we all remember that. That same brain did not want to bail out auto industry with 50 Billion -- reason free markets. That is the republican brain. Vote carefully after understanding all the facts. Please do not take it casually. Vote what you think is right. Collect all the facts. Vote on what matters to you. Not on party lines.

Bush stood in the way of any progress with his veto pen

To keep it short and simple, Porter, waivers. This seems to be a favorite antic of The One. Pass a healthcare law that requires 100% participation and then give out waivers to your friends exempting them from the rules. Welfare Reform, which was the result more of a Republican controlled Congress than the cooperation you suggest, limited benefits and required participants to eventually move into the job market. Waivers now threaten to provide a work-around to the law as it was meant to be applied, IMO.
BTW, Clinton twice vetoed the Welfare Reform put forth by Congress.

State governments have ALWAYS been allowed to apply for waivers. Always. Mitt requested them as governor of Massachusetts. The states that petioned Obama in this case were red states, no? Utah? They want a broader definition of "work related activities" to include training and education (because unemployment is high).

That's not "gutting welfare". Not even close. And Romney already started to phase out that attack line as it was so sloppy and false. I suggest you join him.

Porter, I can't rule out everything you say. A lot of what you say is correct. On the other hand, there are a lot of arguments to support my POV and I'm really looking at what I foresee will be the end result. Given Obama's technique of ruling by "executive order," it's not hard to see where things will go if Obama wins the election and gets his way. Healthcare waivers are a perfect example and are astounding in that Obama is using them to gut his own law...the signal (sic) achievement of his four years in office?
Oh, and don't forget the end around to welfare...food stamps. Jan,. 2009 @ approximately 32 million participants; today @ over 46 million participants. From October, 2009, to March, 2012, the benefit per household did decrease...by about 5.9%, however, the participation rate increased by a whopping 29%. That's like 1 step forward followed by 5 steps back. Is it really too hard to believe that the goal is to bring back Lyndon Johnson's Great Society?
Bottom line, it's unsustainable. We are headed for a brick wall that will prove highly immovable and we are putting our children in the front seat without proper restraint.

I just think "gutting" in reference to waivers is a bit much. Plus, Romney was for them before he was against them. That's why I call him Mitt Kerry, and why he won't gain any traction in the polls.

Either pay for them with taxes or get rid of them. But neither will happen. We'll just borrow to pay for them and address this in another decade or so. Because that's what the American people want - ponies, unicorns, and no taxes.

I wonder if we'll have another decade. In the end, time will tell whether welfare reform will be eroded. It sure looks like it's headed that way and in the end, if we end up there again, it will be a "gutting" in no uncertain terms.
BTW, Obama plans to save $600 billion by gutting, er, cleaning up Medicare to fund Obama-care.
Anyway, here are the hard facts for anybody who thinks we can keep paying S.S., Medicaid, and Medicare, etc.
Imagine that your yearly income is $21,700.
Your budget caused you to spend $38,200 last year.
This added $16,500 of new debt to your existing debt.
This drove your credit card outstanding balance to $142,710.
In order to deal with your situation you're cutting your $38,200 budget next year by $385.
Now add 8 zeroes to each of those numbers to understand where we're at as a nation.
Now let's talk unfunded debt. If anyone thinks that the CBO's projected reduction in the debt over the next 10 years is credible when we're adding over a trillion dollars a year to it, I have a bridge you might be interested in. That said, the CBO's Alternative Fiscal Scenario, a more realistic long-term budget forecast, makes much more sense given our spending habits. So, what does the Alternative Fiscal Scenario project our unfunded liabilities (i.e., what we're actually promising to pay out) to be? $222 trillion dollars; $11 trillion more than it was just a year ago. So, who thinks that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the like are still solvent?

We don't, but we will. As long as China restricts foreign investments to a limited set of options, they'll lend us money. But one day, that stops as the country eases towards more economic freedom. That's when it hits the fan.

Has to be some combination of overhaul (means testing), reform (don't let Pharma write Plan D), cost controls, additional taxes on the wealthy (reasonable ones - don't extend Bush tax cuts, maybe move back to Regan era rate for top rate), and a huge crap sandwich for all (like a VAT, or higher payroll taxes, or the removal of the write-off for medical expenses / mortgage / et al to fund).

Notice I didn't include reducing the programs, because to me that isn't a realistic outcome. The 55+ age demo will always be the largest and most engaged voting bloc, and they won't accept a reduction of benefits. Ever. Politicians interested in getting elected won't ask them to.

So we have to pay for it. Not borrow to fund it. Pay for it.

One thing's for sure, if Romney and Paul take the election that will free up "The One" to run for the Savior of Europe. He seems to love European socialism so much it would be a perfect fit and then he can bow to whomever he wants. And you will be free to follow.
BTW, so I don't have to guess, which union do you belong to?

Please, don't hold back on my account. It would be much more entertaining if you would put yourself out a bit and guess. And it would give you a chance to enlighten us on how my disappointments with both Romney and Christie make me a socialistic democrat also.

Mac, Dont bather responding to stupid rants. They cry freedom of speech so long as you will scream alongside their own views. Individual liberties so long as you are not a female. It is quite funny. Watching Hannity and Riley is like watching SNL 24X7.
Windbag followers, none of them think for themselves. They cannot name one department with budget increase in the last 4 years.
Servicing 10T Bush era deficit spending interest, interest payments to Social security trust for the US Treasury securities it holds, accounts most of the federal budget.
Cutting congressman head count from 435 to 217 and US Senate headcount to 49+1, making Social security 75% optional and 25% mandatory are useful ideas, in my opinion, cutting military budget. In the tradition of Adam Smith or Ben Franklin.
Do not be incensed by idiotic doubts. Gov Christie abdicated his responsibility when he asked everyone to get the hell out -- what is a govt for? Place a curfew. Ask everyone to leave the state? What an hypocrite -- did not want to stop at hippo?
He flies tax payer helicopter to attend his sons little league and has the gall to ask everyone to sacrifice. This is a might is right philosophy and history is replete with sad ends of any system that followed such faulty principles. You and I are as patriotic as any of these riled up fans but with a thinking head. They should go back to their TV sets and watch more. we are compassionate and that is why we are not asking them to go to Europe.

I'm not sure what your disappointment is with Romney, Mac. Are you suggesting that you planned to vote to oust The One due to your disappointment with him but you have now been disappointed by the choice of the candidate the Republicans put forth? Are you disappointed with Romney because you lived in Massachusetts during his governorship?
As for Christie, do you yearn for the days of Corzine? Not to worry, he won't go to jail and he can gather another $60 million dollars of his own money to spend on buying another NJ governorship.
Additionally, if Romney disappoints you can take solace in the fact that The One and his sidekick, the inimitable "Regular Joe" Biden, will be placing their first call to Jon Corzine asking for his help. Who can forget Uncle Joe proclaiming "...when Barack Obama and I were...beginning the plan on how we would try to get this economy out of a ditch, literally, the first guy I called was Jon Corzine. It's not a joke. It's not a joke. First of all, he's the smartest guy I know in terms of the economy and on finance, and I really mean that." He is pretty smart; how else would he come up with the idea that saying he didn't know where the money of those who trusted him to invest disappeared to when asked to account?
So, help us, Mac, exactly how did Romney and Christie disappoint you?
BTW, I never called you a socialist Democrat; is there something you want to confess?

Hey, Oliver, rather than stringing together every liberal talking point that you know while throwing grammar to the wind, how about picking one issue and providing a solid logical argument as to why it is as you say and then we can have a dialog. That is if having a dialog was your intent. Otherwise, don't bump your head because it's gotten so big from you congratulating yourself and Mac for your moderation and your compassion for the unwashed masses of unthinking Conservatives that it's liable to explode.

Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Moe. I hope you didn’t stay up all night to assume my reasoning and select the range of my possible responses. BTW, you don’t drive after you start making posts on here, do you?

I don't know that he's "horrible", but he is the poster child for a political philosophy that's a proven failure at the polls.

Hey Bob. You know the poor don't pay taxes, right? How can you favor a tax cut for people who don't pay taxes. (Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing)

Oh, and tell me again about how our taxes are lower now than when Obama took office. And about how our taxes were lower in 2008 when Corzine left office than when they were in 1996 when Whitman left. I just love fairy tales!

John I consider myself poor living here in NJ and I am single and I pay taxes. So your being stupid. Single people pay more taxes than any one else. Actually to have a fair tax code we should be making people pay more taxes for each child they have because that child is going to cost society alot of dollars. That will get people having smaller families which will allow our school taxes to go down because there wont be all these breeders having children and over-populating our country. Now that is a forward thinking tax plan..

Look. I want the top 2% to pay taxes like they are forced to do in every other Industrialised nation. In Britain the top 2% pay 50% of their income and they should. they can afford it and it wont effect their life in any way shape or form. I am so sick of the haves dictating to the half nots who they all made their money of the backs of. The Revolution is coming believe me and it wont be pretty the top 2% are the ones who have the most to lose... like their lives and everything they own. It happened in 1793 in France, 1918 in Russia and it can and will happen here. Its just a matter of time unless things radically change.... and they wont get better under Romney. Obama is not the best candidate either but he is much more broad in his scope than Romney and the Rich have made a fortune under Obama. The stock market has risen the highest amount since the end of WWII under any president under Obama's tenure..

John, your federal taxes and payroll taxes are lower because the tax rates are lower. That's a fact. Most of the stimulus was tax cuts.

Bob Smith, your biases and ignorance are blinding you. Children are not a liability to society, they are an asset. You want small families. Look at Europe where population growth has stopped, or worse. Whose taxes are being used to pay to care for the ever growing and aging portion of society? The balance here is already way off with something like 3 or 4 workers paying in for every retiree taking out. Children, hopefully, grow up to be productive members of society and thereby reduce your taxes because the tax base grows. The fewer putting in the less you will get out and the more it will ultimately cost you.
Do I believe anything I've said will make a hill of beans difference to you? No, you appear to have already made up your mind based on bad information.
As for revolution; you mention the French and Russian revolutions...when you get time, let me know how each of them worked out and made anything better.

John Hayden: Your Federal taxes are lower now under Obama than when he took office. Not sure about Whitman/Corzine since she borrowed money against the pension fund to finance her tax cuts (which should not have been given under those circumstances) which have played a big part in the pension liability mess we are in now.

Hey Bob (and Porter). My marginal tax rate hasn't changed. 25% of my income in 2008 is the same rate as 25% of my income in 2012. Now, I did go to public school, but I learned that 25 is not lower than 25.

And seriously? You believe in penalizing success? From each according to his ability to each according to his need, eh? If you want the living conditions that exist in England, feel free to emigrate there. A fair tax structure would be eliminating income/property taxes and implement a flat usage tax of 25%. Then everybody pays their "fair share", with the top 2% paying the lion's share with all the luxury items they purchase.

Bob. Seven of the top ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats. 22 of the top 30 wealthiest counties in America vote democrat. Obama's top contributors in 2008 included Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and Citigroup. Not sure how it is that anyone in this day and age still believes that the Democratic party is 'the party of the little guy'. Also just out of curiosity, What is so magical about the number of $250,000? Do you think that is 'the rich'?

Poor analysis. We are a month from Labor Day and Romney is right on schedule. Obama has over spent already with his negative attack ads. They have little or no impact. Romney still polling strong. Obama and Biden have been criss crossing the country to no avail. Now Romney and Ryan hit the road. Romeny continues to raise big $ and will now begin spending to clarify the issues. Our debt load is 175% of GDP vs european countries such as UK and Germany at mid 90% levels. Only Greece is close to us at 164%....enough said. We need real dramatic reforms to stop this fiscal irresponsibility which will destroy our children's future

Concerned, Where is that 175% number from? The Congressional Budget Office put U.S. debt to GDP at 70% in June. http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43288 Still not great, but nowhere near the number you cite.

FYI: Ultra-conservatives vote Libertarian.

Ryan's inclusion was to sure up the gun vote. Romney's support for gun rights has always been questionable, so by including A-rated Ryan, he provides a little more assurance to the single issue voter that he's for real. It's the same reason he could n't pick Christie. Christie is no friend of gun owners.

Where to begin? First off, look at Romney's favorables - they're among the worst ever for a POTUS candidate and have deteriorated steadily. The attack ads are clearly working. Can't imagine how you'd conclude otherwise.

Secondly, ignore the national numbers - which are tied despite every possible thing going against Obama (unemployment, war, drought, gas prices, food prices). He's pulling away in swing states. A six point lead (which is the nature of lead he has in FL, OH, PA) is huge. And a high % of the electorate is locked in, so there's not much out there to get - especially when a guy with awful favorable ratings goes up against a guy with solid ones.

All this, despite being outspent by the GOP. What are you possibly looking at that suggests Romney's doing well? The very selection of Ryan over Pawlenty or Portman tells you what Romney's mindset is - that he's losing the race. He's throwing hail marys and jacking up bad 3-pointers.

Obama SHOULD be losing. He SHOULD be trailing in the polls. This race shouldn't even be close. But yet here we are.

Where did you get those debt #'s? Japan is actually #1 with US just out of top 10. But saying "Greece" sounds better than saying "Japan" I guess.

PS - the remaining undecides couldn't care less about any of the debt issues we face. So, again, what does Ryan do for your chance of winning?

Lauren,
Great question. The CBO does not include the state and local debt levels and unfunded pensions of the public workers in its calculation of debt as a % of GDP. The europeans % of debt to GDP includes national and state and local debt in their calculations. 175% is apples to apples.

C- that's very interesting. Euros pay for things as they go with high taxes, so that would seem to make sense. Do you have a link to a table that would have all of the data?

Porter,
True the Europeans do pay taxes, but the reason our debt % is so high is not taxes its that we have such a high level of military spending vs the european nations. we cannot afford entitlements at the current level and the military at current levels. the calculations is had to find as most table do not include Federal and state debt together. The one i have found which does come close is fed and state debt without unfunded public employee unfunded pension amounts and that comes to about 120% then you add $3 trillion of public union unfunded pension plans debt and its 175% approx.

Thanks! Agree on military - but was in a base town recently and saw an Army Times with a headline titled: "Cuts to Military in name of Political Correctness".

So, no, that won't happen either.

People want the spending, they want the programs. They just don't want to pay for them. We aren't 'conservative', we're 'cheap'.

Porter,
I cannot disagree with your last post. Thank you for an respectful exchange of ideas.

Concerned, I think we just disagree on this being a smart pick or not and how Romney has or hasn't done a good job positioning himself. My initial comments are 100% related to the 'horserace' aspects.

After all, you can't do anything if you don't get elected.

Porter,

Some of us are actually conservatives. We don't want the programs either.

Do you think Rubio being a former Mormon had anything to do with it? I do.

robert, you are 65 and I am 53. No doubt. But I sure hope you have kids and grand kids. I have. And I want to leave them a better country then what I inherited.
America cannot spend more than what it has. Absolutely. Look what happened to England which pursued semi austerity measures. They are more in recessive phase now. When times are bad we have to dig out of the hole. We cannot dig deeper. No need for 650 billion military budget. and we need to balance the budget. Cutting everything proportionally. Not just social safety net programs.

Robert....
You are 65 and don't care that medicare will be decimated for those under 55 under Paul Ryan's draconian budget proposal as long as you 'get yours'?
If Ryan represented the masses instead of corporations,he would have proposed that medicare cut costs by negotiating prices for drugs the way the VA now does. Instead he satisfies big pharmaceuticals, as most big corporate Republicans, on the backs of those who can't afford it.

Gene - save your breath, they don't care. That's been established.

What they fail to realize is that the younger citizens can't take control of their payroll taxes and plan for our own retirements because we're currently paying for them. And will have to continue to pay for them until they die.

Any reform will involve us continuing to carry them, plus plan for ourselves. They don't see how that's a problem.

Why did all this happen? Because they demanded lower taxes every election and would never abide ANY spending cuts that altered their quality of life. So they borrowed, meaning that these were tax "deferments", not "tax cuts". And now the bill is due.

Gene - The "draconian" Ryan plan, which BTW has bipartisan support, takes 30 years to balance. He understands that cutting any entitlement program with the hand-out mentality of American society these days is something that cannot be done overnight. Maybe I missed it, but what are the details of the plan President Obama has put forth to save Medicare? Are those crickets I hear?!?!

It essentially is, for all intents and purposes. That's how you know it was a bad pick.

From here on out it's Ryan vs Obama. That strategy didn't even pan out in NY-26.

I've gone on record as saying that I thought an Obama or Romney presidency would look a lot alike - except that GOP congressmen would pay massive, unprecedented stimulus bills for Romney in order to kick-start the economy (borrowed from China, of course). So I don't "hate" or even particularly fear a Romney regime. What bothers me about the pick is the sheer silliness of it.

Heaven help us with a politician that praises the me me me world of Ayn Rand. He even requires his staff to read her sick philosophies.

You must be on food stamps or welfare, enjoying that Obama money!

I hope you do Keith. Find a couple of departments where the federal budget has increased since Obama took office.
The revenue base has shrunk -- 8% unemployment remember.
And interest on the 10 Trillion debt that Bush left behind.
Prior commitments to Social security, and medicare.
Prior commitment to US Military and the Bush tax cut for the rich (it cost the country 2 Trillion since it was signed). And Bush had to borrow, we had to pay more in interest. So if you add all this you will discover that Obama is fiscally responsible.
Get the figures let us see.
John, I am enjoying 2% reduction in Social Security tax and that I can carry my kids on my health care insurance. Food stamps and welfare and can be useful. read some of the comeback kids or rags to riches stories. Do not pant all the poor with one broad brush. I know so many republicans who decry food stamps and social programs and file for unemployment the minute they get fired and many liberals who get laid off, take loans and tide through the crisis without filing unemployment. I do not think it will matter to you, watch more Hannity and Riley. Or you will understand anything. Kids are not getting anything for free. Obama passed a law requiring the insurance companies to cover kids under parents policies. My policy covers my kids till 24. I dont think you can understand, John. No loss of mine to state the facts. I can try.

For 'we the people' and not wee the corporations. Obama- Biden 2012

Olivier,

Even if you're paying $1000 a week in social security taxes, a 2% cut is only $20. Stop trying to sell that 2% like it's something big. It's less than lunch once a week.

Gene,

What has Obama done to further individual liberties?

Olivier - Hard to believe that we are all missing those good old days of only a $10 trillion debt! Obama is a disaster. Anyone who can argue that our nation is better off today than it was when he took office is proof positive that our nation's education system too is disastrous. Logic and reason are non-existent. I say spending more than we have is bad. If you cannot even begin the argument from that "given," we, as a nation or as a household, are doomed. My friends who voted for him 4 years ago are not doing so this time around. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Wait until some of the kids in the 20's get married have kids and have to pay their mortgage, buy food, pay taxes, car/insurance payment, health care, electric/gas/phone bills, water/sewer bills, etc. Sure it's great having the tax payer take care of the free stuff but wait until they walk a mile in those shoes, and by the time that happens I can only wonder what Uncle Sam will take out of thier pay checks. To take from those that have and give to those that don't in the long run FAILS.

Bob, I am as democrat as it gets. But I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Social Security has mismanaged from the get go. It is a govt sponsored Ponzi Scheme. And is a moral hazard. I would never want to dig the hole deeper. Bury Social security. My plan would be: Make 75% optional and 25% mandatory. Let me explain. Wage earner must save 12.4% for retirement. But 75% of can be invested anywhere including the markets. Markets are atleast transparent. Social Security Trust funds holds US Treasury securities ( that is it lends money to US Gov). And US Congress raids the Social security like a slush fund, dipping into it whenever it pleases. The other 25% is to pay the people from prior years who paid into it.
Right now I hope to get nothing from Social Security. With this hybrid plan we can hope to get something. Gov can mandate 25% into real estate, 25% into metals and materials and 25% into Intl securities and 25% into Domestic securities of that 75%.
But no US treasuries.
I am sorry I cannot agree with your prescription on Social Security a government run Ponzi. Prove me otherwise. What was Madoff doing that is different from what Social Security is doing. Rob Paul Pay Peter.

Bob - If genuine equity is what we're after, how about a Social Security recipient collects not one dime more than they put into the system and allow them the option of investing those forced savings in conservative holdings, aka, defined contribution plans? But then again, that would be freedom at its best and we certainly cannot trust American citizens with their own money.

But you must be psychic to predict when the last ten days of a "person" (I assume you mean life} will occur. How long have you worked in healthcare?

What about social security for those who are 'truly' disabled, and those children who are affected? What does a 401k do for them? Social Security is a safety net, not a savings plan. Let's keep it that way.

Here is my platform:
Make social security 75% optional and 25% mandatory to keep the ponzi scheme going. No expansion. Individuals can invest where they want with the 75% and be prepared for their retirement. Phase out Social security.
Force Social security to sell all their US Treasury holdings and invest in more diversified investments including Africa -- buy land -- everywhere -- No more land being created. think Alaska purchase or Louisiana Purchase.
Amend the US Constitution to balance the budget. Unplug the printing press, going forward for new programs. Which means no unfunded tax cuts to the rich or unfunded wars unless the oil companies foot the bill.
Reduce house of representatives to 217 (from 435 today).
Cut the Senate for 100 to 49+1 (VP)
They do nothing. 100 and 217 can easily do nothing. we do not need all of them.
Cut military spending.
Make immigration easier for those who are qualified and illegal immigration IMPOSSIBLE. No Amnesty nothing. If we need farm talent get 100K for farm and give them the status. Plug the holes disallowing illegal immigration. Repurpose the US army to protect the borders of the USA.

Dovetail.....
Cry me a river! Ryan is all about helping corporations on the backs of laborers.
YES, we need change. Vote out the tea bag congress that obstructs all the jobs bills that were presented and has a record number of filibusters. Give tax breaks to corporations that stay in the U.S.A. and raise taxes on the vulture capitalists like BAIN CAPITAL that outsource our future. Stop allowing unlimited political contributions from UNDISCLOSED multi-national and foreign corporations that try to influence our elections at the expense of our middle class workers. Obama- Biden 2012

The wealthy 1% must share the sacrifice. No more tax breaks for Exxon execs and hedge-fund honchos who pay lower rates than we do. Campaign contributions to RomRyan shouldn't outweigh fairness for all.

Actually, the top tax rate in the 1950's was 90%. But yes, taxes are stupid low, especially for a nation that loves entitlements and supposedly hates debt.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

Ah yes the ability to make numbers say what you want.........please provide information for conversion of 1950's income to 2012 income. An example, in case you don't understand, a house in 1950 cost 20,000, today it is 300,000. The only thing that got cut from 1950 to 2012 in tax rates were the taxes on the very wealthy. It is called a ratio, look it up.

"has he done the best job"--he has done a horrible job. Any other President with his record would be down by 10 points. The guy has done nothing right-he has come up with no plan for anything. He is big on commissions and study groups, but he never follows through, photo ops. I am not Romney fan but to say Obama has been successful at anything is just lying.

Retired military pay about $600 per year for their families.They pay small co-pays for meds.Some of them have other gov't jobs,sometimes on the same bases the retired from,and collect wages or salaries,plus their pensions.

During the campaign, the NY Times editorial page, while endorsing Obama, admitted that they did so despite his " whisper thin" resume. I thought he seemed liked a Tony-Robbins-style motivational speaker - got people cheering and weeping, but really, what exactly was he saying? I never thought he was prepared to do the job, and ever since he got elected, all I keep hearing is, " well, he was handed a mess, it will take a while to fix it. So let's give him four more years to see if he can. " i think there are many people who are not racist at all, who never really thought this guy had what it takes to do the job. I know from the diapering bumper stickers that many of the biggest Obama fans in my neighborhood lost their enthusiasm well before this election. There was nothing in Bobs comment to suggest that he was racist. Trying to invalidate someone's opinion by calling them a racist is at the very least, close-minded.

I USED THE RACIST TERM AGAINST 50 CENT READ HIS POSTS NOT YOU!!!!

Bob, when Obama took over we were loosing 700K jobs a month. Our President
stopped the bleeding and now we are actually posting some increase. You are seeing what you wish to see. You are supressing those other inconvenient facts.

If you read the bill there are so many goodies in it. There are more the 20 tax increases in it. also............

Obama Plan Cuts Billions from Medicare, Medicaid
By Emily P. Walker, Washington Correspondent, MedPage Today
Published: September 19, 2011

WASHINGTON -- President Obama on Monday defended his 10-year plan to cut $3 trillion from the federal deficit -- a plan that includes $320 billion in proposed cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, largely by cutting payments for healthcare services.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Washington-Watch/Washington-Watch/28607

You know who I like and respect? George Romney, without whom the "successful' Mitt may have been stuck managing a Denny's somewhere. Seemed like a smart guy genuinely dedicated to public service and doing things the right way. How many years did he release?

Rockn roll. lets see all of their returns. Hell let's see yours.

Congrats on a classic, non-nonsensical rant. Ignorance is bliss and you prove it; especially your comment about the solvency of S.S. I realize, however, there's no hope in discussing anything intelligently with you when I read your rant, so I'm sure you won't mind if I just pass. You obviously don't need any convincing since you appear to have convinced yourself.

Somewhere out there Bill Maher is searching for his mouth.

Wow, impressive. We're so bereft of any points of justification for our candidate that we're re-purposing Charlie Sheen quotes.

Lemme guess, your employer pays half your payroll taxes. Am I right?

Porterincollingswood, to disapoint you NO, I pay my own and more......

You pay more than 13.3%?

Pretty sure that's illegal.

Porter - Pretty sure he's a sole proprietor/small business owner.

Wow, I am sure the White House team is in a tizzy. They just lost 100% of their "birther" vote.

Will they recover? CAN they recover?

Let's get Hairy Reid on this one. He should be able to find some unnamed source that will collaborate this story.

To firedup, it's tragic that so many other democrats are hopelessly blind. Did you see the Col.West campaign ad run by the Obamas? Check it out and tell me it wasn't racist! Since he did not decry it, he is for it.

Opinionated, I did see the ad and West's remark about it, and the NAACP chimed in and said it was not racist. go figure : l

Porterincollingswood, you can have the crazy birthers vote if you wish, with Alan Keyes and his birther law suit. (Keyes ran against Obama)

firedup...most of the things you mention (along with another 100+ or so insane emails) are dubunked on legitimate fact check sites such as snopes or factcheck.org

If Obama is as bad as some people like to think he is, you should ask yourself why some forces in this country are making up dozens of false emails and Facebook posts every day that are designed to tell the sheep exactly what they want to hear...just so long as it is anti Obama.

Bob, I do not like Facebook, or read rumors, and do not believe in birthers. there are other issues. and the facts are out there. I have no faith in Factcheck or snopes they were form and run by liberal groups. I have known that for 4 yrs. already..

: )

And five more won't vote for Romney until he ponies up his tax papers. We are confident he paid zero to nil in an advantageous tax bracket he enjoyed while sending his saving to Grand Cayman if not Switzerland.

BethSetan

Ashamed may be, you are. But please accept my sincere gratitude for giving the nation some reprieve. Saving us ALL from Alaskan genius who reads all news papers. I could not vote just for that. Who has time to read all the papers. Only in Alaska.

Don't forget payroll taxes (i.e., S.S. and Medicare), not to mention gasoline taxes. In addition, every fee you pay, such as driver's license, vehicle registration, dog license, etc., are all hidden taxes because the pols are afraid to call them what they really are for fear of the backlash.

Thank you, Paul. I hope this won't overwhelm Mr. Smith. Sadly, I think he'll either ignore us, say it doesn't matter, or call us names and change the subject. Which do you think?

All of the above?

The stimulous created or saved aprox 2 million jobs. Unfortunately aprox 8 million jobs were lost in the Bush depression and it is going to take several years to get all of them back.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/09/did-the-stimulus-create-jobs/

Factcheck? Give us a break. You might as well site the Daily Cos or MoveOn.Org as a source. Factcheck is run by the Annenberg Foundation, the same group that gave Bill Ayers, Obama's mentor, millions.

50 cent....
You are obviously a low information bigot. When you pick locations to talk about, you left out poor(red state) southern white areas. You use generalizations that are common among low information voters who really have nothing constructive to say. Sounds like you represent the right party.

Bob English - Do you know anyone in the real world?!?! The only jobs a president is capable of "creating" are government jobs. It's the free market that creates long-term, sustainable, non-taxpayer funded employment. That's called Economics 101. Additionally, with nearly 47% of Americans paying no federal income tax, exactly where does our esteemed leader get the cheddar to "create" jobs or bail out industries of his choosing? Perhaps if you sat back, took a deep breath and understood that $10 trillion national debt is "bad." $16 trillion national debt is "worse." If we accept the argument that EVERYTHING is Bush's fault, then Obama clearly was not up for the job of repairing the problems despite his cute, little campaign slogan of "hope and change." Lastly, Obama cannot take credit when unemployment rates go down but not take responsibility for when they go up under his watch.

Ah yes, the old "saved" jobs proposition. Too bad there isn't any way to quantify that. And let us not forget that the recession only started when the Dems took control of Congress in 2006. Wasn't Barry a senator then? He had no ideas then and he has none now.

NB, don't worry, you'll get your check. Take a nap until it comes, OK?

No time for naps Porter. Time to get active and save the republic. You know, I'd be perfectly happy to get no Social Security check if the government hadn't taken my money over the years and redistributed it. If I hadn't paid into SS and invested it myself, I'd be a lot better off and I would be able to will it to my children. But simce leftists took it all these years, damn right I intend to get it back.

How about your prescriptions, you getting those? Ryan supported that giveaway to the drug companies, so it only makes sense you'd soak that up. If it doesn't come over, let me know because I have the receipt. It's dated 4/16/12.

Well actually Peter, I do get most of my prescription costs paid for, even though I was opposed to the creation of the Medicare drug benefit. Since I've lived my life responsibly, I would have prescription benefits from other sources without it. I would like to see it repealed. There's no reason for irresponsible people to have their drugs paid for in a free society that honors work.

Awesome. Great news. Since your earlier post made it clear that your only goal was to keep your checks coming at the expense of everyone under the age of 55, my only hope is that you continue to maximize the benefits you'd deny others*.

* who have also paid the same payroll taxes you paid all your life (but screw us, right?).

Porter - the only way to save the system so that you and my children in their 30s will be able to get back any of the money you have put in is to overhaul it. People under 55 as far as Medicare and 45 as far as Social Security have time to make the appropriate adjustments before they retire. People already collecting do not and have made plans based on the defective system that has existed. They cannot be expected to adjust. I will most likely be dead when the system runs out of money so keeping the current system will have no effect on me. It is my children and grandchildren that I am concerned about. Eventually leftists run out of other people's money and the system crashes. I'll love to know your solution to the problem other than tax the rich or if you even think a problem exists.

Stop it, if you cared even a little bit about future generations you wouldn't have made every race since 1980 about lower taxes (because that benefited your generation) and higher non-stop giveaways to seniors (because that benefits you now). You guys cared about yourselves, nothing else. You sucked it dry, broke it, fought ANY attempts to control costs or means-test, and - ultimately - paid 10 cents on the dollar for what you'll end up using.

My payroll taxes are going to pay for what you are using now. That money's gone, no shot I get that back (especially when Ryan's voucher plan is implemented).

Enjoy it! And stop your sanctimonious Boomer crap about giving a crap about anyone else other than yourself. Please.

Porter - up until your last diatribe I thought you were a reasonable person with whom I could have a discussion. However, it is obvious that you are a very angry small minded person. Instead of responding to my request that you share your thoughts on how to solve the problem, you attack me personally even though you know nothing of me or my family or my motives. Ad hominem attacks are the last resort of people with nothing to say. Consequently, I am done with you. Please feel free to have the last post if your present tantrum requires it.

How about this - we do it your way, as you suggested in your earlier post.

You keep cashing the checks, the rest of is will exchange our future security to make it happen for you.

Sound fair?

Good night.

PS - I am respectful and reasonable most of the time. That post of your above was just too offensive to take. The sense of entitlement is just too much to bear. That attitude of yours is everything that's wrong with America, and how we ended up in this mess to begin with.

And you may want to look up the definition of ad hominem. Because bringing up how a generation made choices that caused the current problems we faced doesn't qualify.

Porter,
The "Boomer crap" comment is on the edge. I know you can do better! Please stick to the issues.

You go 3M. wink, wink.

You said it Chilly. This ticket is downright scary. The only ones going to vote this one in are rich or stupid, very stupid. I am afraid of the stupid people here.
Paul Ryan is the author of the most extreme right-wing budget ever proposed in Congress. He wants to dismantle Medicare, privatize Social Security, and cut taxes for millionaires while raising taxes on the middle class.

KC
Wonderful and brilliant proposal. For a minute if everyone who loves All things American can think beyond party label, and put United States of America first we can come up with a workable plan. At least a plan. Right now most of us are working way too hard, with no time to think, listen to some politcal rant over TV, and blindly subscribe to one position or the other. I am eager to come up with a plan that would solve our debt problem, clean up the sesspool in Washington.

good for you. keep investing the max. SS was NEVER meant to be a retirement account. it's a supplement to your retirement.

$400,000 in an annuity will pay you about $20,000 per year. Do you have $400,000? and can you live on $20,000? trust me, you're gonna want that SS

Chilly - agreed. And most of the people know are doing just that. Two caveats that concern me...

The people I know doing this tend to be college educated people in industries that didn't get killed in the recession. Their wages may have stagnated and they may have had some down years (2008-2009), but they're not in dire straits. They make good money, have some to set aside.

Also, people my age were able to invest when they were in the early stages of their career, before family obligations hit and the recession started. That's critical if your employer matches (and do they even do that anymore?). Younger people can't do that in a sustained downturn like this. Plus, people my age don't have the student loan debt of 20-somethings today (which can't be discharged even in bankruptcy).

And maybe a 3rd - its almost certain that the high returns that were seen in the previous decade will never be seen again. Without a high degree of disposable income to invest, that's going to hamper them in building that retirement fund.

But mainly my question is this - what do people who don't have "good jobs" do to save for retirement? In the past blue collar workers were in unions and had pensions. Those are gone.

How do those people make that work? And if they don't, how doesn't the government come to their rescue with some kind of program later on? Don't we end up right back where we started?

NiHoMa I am also voting for Obama. But let that not stop us from having a civil conversation, thinking through problems. Even if it is a meaningless chorum in some strange online community called Patch.com. Let the nation discover a few citizens who admitted the current systems is fraught with problems and seek a solution.
BTW, small government folks are just a fad. Not one of the teabaggers rejected or refused salary hikes. Not one tabled a motion to reduce congress headcount. Why do we need 435 reps and 100 senators. We can do with 217 reps and 49+1 senators. Actually 3 would do just fine. Since we allow only 2 parties and everyone votes along party lines, 3 would do just fine. We can make the currrent congress a museum and from the entrance fees we can pay the 6 peoples salaries. They make 140K plus + superlative healthcare + pension after 1 term. Go figure. In return what do they do: filibuster, kick the can down the road, or investigate who copulated with whom. Useless and shameless grown up bunch. If I function like that where I work, I will be out of work before 11 AM. First we should get rid of the vast majority of them. Paul Ryan thinks and while I think he is misguided but I believe he means well. I disagree with him on how to fix the defunct system. A system of 300 million people cannot be viewed in those terms. Just pay a visit to one of the side streets where homeless hangout in NYC. They are no different from thirdworld slums. Even the poor deserve dignity.

Loves Ayn Rand. And yet has never had a non-government job. Wow. Hope the irony isn't lost on him.

Capitol Hill isn't exactly a quarry. Ya know what I'm sayin'?

Do you always get your citations from Wikipedia?

JoeR - you should be aware that I have used Wikipedia references myself in the past. I didn't say that was wrong on your part, just curoius about whether or not you had a better source.

Actually, none of the Rand stuff is up on Ryan's Wiki page. It was scrubbed, just as Palin's was in the hours before her nomination (hence the ability of the networks to get the early scoop).

So, uh, why the mention of Wikipedia? And why the later note? Please, illuminate.

How about some Ryan trivia from his Wilipedia page? How did Paul Ryan pay for his education at Miami U.? The education he's use to try and demolish Social Security?

answer: his dad's social security benefits

What's your point, Porter? I've paid S.S. for 40 years. That doesn't alter the fact that it's broke and the government raided it over and over again until there was no money left. Do I deserve a benefit? Do you? $100 trillion of unfunded liabilities; where do you think that will come from?

You do, I do, and current seniors do.

The difference is that people 30 years old are going to have to foot the bill for themselves and for those over 65. They get a double hit, so either have to pay more in taxes or take a lower level of benefits (which is a tax as well).

And that scenario, government raiding it, is the direct result of income tax breaks that have consistently been demanded and delivered since the 60's.

As usual, my point is this - the current crisis is the result of how people voted, and the demands they made. Unfortunately, those who didn't get to have a voice in that process are now on the hook for the bill.

As far as I have heard government does not creat jobs job creators do. So since
the Bush tax breaks are still in place where the jobs.

There is no money in the trust fund. That was raided long ago. It is only backed by the IOUs from the federal government.

Oh Joe, using the term "trust fund" with politicians, you should no better. It's gone with the wind(bags).

Oh wow, did I need that laugh. Thanks, Joe, for the levity. What universe do you live in? Exactly where can this trust fund be found?

Amen

Joe - there is no fund. There used to be a fund. The money we had all put into social security was in an account segregated from other government accounts. What was in the trust fund was borrowed by the federal government and spent. It was replaced with government IOUs, treasuries. The problem comes with ever increasing debt. There is a limit on how much the federal government can owe and how much it can borrow. Once that limit has been reached, it will not be able to borrow any more money. In the context of the debt ceiling crisis of last summer, Obama said last August that he could not guarantee that SS checks would go out because there might not be enough money in the coffers to do so. If there were real assets in the fund, the government would be able to pay benefits whether the debt ceiling were raised or not but since SS takes in less than it pays, the debt ceiling has to be continually raised to cover the payments. Are treasuries sagfe investments? Yes. But that does not address the problem that there are no real assets in the fund and that the government has to borrow to make SS payments. I hope I have made this clear.

Patty, you are totally misinformed. NJ schools happen to be amongst the best schools in the country and are always in the top tier of schools in the US, NJ is first in graduation rates. The schools in the high poverty, high crime areas are struggling but the schools in the well funded school districts do just as well if not better than the elite private schools and the best schools of the world. In fact, National Assessment for Educational Progress (NAEP) scores have been steadily improving over the past decades for all ethnic and racial groups. NAEP is the gold standard for evaluating educational progress in America and the results of these tests show that US schools have been improving which totally undermines the garbage that our schools are failing. Our schools are supposedly so horrible and yet America is the most powerful economy on earth and we just landed the incredible Curiosity rover on Mars. The US has the highest number of kids living in povery amongst the wealthier industrialized nations. Poverty affects performance in school, graduation rates and educational outcomes.

IMO it is not the educational "system" persay that needs an overhaul although I do think Superintendents are way overpaid. I think it is the actual buildings on an elementary and secondary level that are in need of an overhaul. We could put a lot of people back to work modernizing them as well. As for lack of preparation - "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think." (sic)

Joe R - Saying NJ is one of the best in a nation that ranks 20th internationally on all fronts of education is not saying much. The US, however, is #1 in one area of education - the highest per pupil cost in the world. Clearly, it is not a matter of funding. Only 35% of American high school seniors are proficient readers. Only 23% are proficient in math. Nationally, only 74% of ninth graders make it to graduation. In NJ (where we do better than the national average), 39% of eighth graders are proficient readers while a whopping 40% are proficient at math. However, 80% of incoming community college freshmen in NJ require remedial classes. The most startling fact of all is that 12% of American high schools have fewer than 60% of their ninth graders ever making it to twelfth grade. What the Department of Education and grown adults have done to the children of this nation should be considered an act of war.

Joe R, You must be a grammar school teacher. Where you do get these facts from? Your superiors? I agree totally with Donna Griffin...Parents and most students in the upper grades are aware of all the problems that their school has. Some Administrator and Teachers are in denial and are not willing admit what is going on. Not only is Donna right on! A lot of kids drop out of school the first year of college.. They are not getting the special treatment that they really did not deserve. Schools have become a fraud in most of the towns. I can only hope college is different and is not going to play the same games that the public schools get away with.

As you can see from my previous posts, I did not say the treasury IOUs are fake. Why do you keep saying that?

More importantly, SS's own web site states that the IOUs held by SS will be exhausted between 2036 and 2041 and that thereafter it will only be able to pay 3/4ths of scheduled benefits since those benefits will be paid thereafter only from SS tax revenues.

Here is the web page: http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/solvency/index.html

As a further note, the cash taken in by SS is exchanged for the IOUs and is then deposited in the US Treasury and is indistinguishable from all the other money in the government's general fund.

And you still did not address the debt ceiling problem which Obama himself stated. Was he lying?

This is the first year people who paid into social security paid more than what they are eligible to receive. There are towns in the US that have gone bankrupt due to not enough incoming revenue and having to spend more to sustain local economies. I was referring to the PISA scores that rank the US behind many other countries in key areas like science and math. Yes, we have a solid education system nationally and many go on to become entreprenueurs because of all our country has to offer. But, not all of our graduates move onto become the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Many will have to compete for entry level jobs in a global environment under a different set of circumstances that graduates faced in last few decades. I am not saying we should not have any social programs, just saying we need to revise and reform to adapt to the ever changing global environment. Things that may have worked years ago may no longer work and may need to be adjusted.

I don't think the other societies you mention have the level of sticky fingers in the cookie jar that we have. It may sound cynical, but we appear to be rife with corruption in government regardless of party affiliation on every level.

Crazy, I agree 100 %; "never saying that you are sorry you are stupid" I love that. Unfortunately its clear from reading these posts that many folks are completely taken in by Republican BS. Comes from watching Fox too much. Clinton left a budget sutplus which "W" threw away on two uneccessary wars and budget cuts for the 1% all of which we will be paying for for along time to come. Another Republing-run government will turn the USA iinto a third world type society where the 1% live in gated communities with armed guards while the rest of us live in tin shacks with sewage flowing in the streets. This is not your father's benevolent upper class Republican Party of the Eisenhower days; anyone who thinks they are have drunk too much of that kool-aid the right wingers like to talk about.

Great choice of a pseudonym. I'll echo Mike Diviney's criticism of you a bit.
>> Mittney is a Moron/Mormon.
What kind of moron are you?
>> Voteing for a republican is never saying that you are sorry that you are stupid.
Have you ever considered investing in spell-checking or grammar-checking software? As Mike wrote, it would definitely help your credibility. As a matter of fact, the Patch has a built in spell-checker, just in case you didn't know what those squiggly red lines under the word "Voteing" meant.

I had to write it this way for all you republic-necks could understand!

MetJones - I believe that we are politically on opposite sides of the spectrum, but you're right in one regard. If a community does not give a darn about itself, why in the world should anyone else? Translation....it is not the government's job to fix broken communities. The problem isn't poverty, it's a dependency culture that has been fostered which expects government to be the savior in every aspect of life. From providing free birth control, to food stamps, to long-term unemployment benefits, to public housing - the system is FAILING communities by crippling individual spirit & a work ethic. Self-reliance is non-existent and that culture of dependence has now become a multi-generational burden. God help us.

50 cent, you are white and a major buffoon with your cheap parody of a white actor in blackface playing Amos and Andy. Grow up, your low IQ is showing. You embarrass anyone who is white - actually you embarrass anyone who is human. .

Ah thank you Ric. I am glad at least three of us see it.

Joe R, I am a die hard democrat. But I also find SS to be a PONZI scheme. Madoff went to jail for doing the same thing. Where am I go wrong. Educate me.
SSA collects from current wage earners and pays yesterdays wage earners who paid into the system. What does a Ponzi scheme do.
Let us not be childish thinking it pays the bill today so it must continue. What about the wager earner in 2026 who will pay but will not get anything in return. Bernie Sanders and just about Senator will agree that if nothing is done Social security will be defunct at some point in the future. Explain to me what is wrong? Right wing does not mean everything is wrong. And everyone has to oppose them. Thanks to Right Wing for bringing this to light. Dems do not have the courage to fix it. They want to kick the can down the road.
As a Dem, paying SST 10.4 (thanks to Obama I would have been 12.4) I like to propose the following action plan:
Social Security will pay the current benefit retirees.
Social Security will be phased out.
Here is how that can be realized:
Sell all the US Treasuries it holds and buy market securities, some diversified allocation.
Current wage earners can divert 75% of the 12.4% into a self directed mandatorilly diversified retirement safety net plan. The other 25% will go toward paying the current beneficiaries. This 25% will supplement the income the trust (if it exists) receives to pay the bill. As it stands it is very poorly managed and not diversified.

Now, now, Oliver, don't try to confuse Joe R. with the facts. He was just getting wound up and I was interested to see where his vaporous arguments would take us.

Ask a republic-neck. He's the one that sent many of the good paying blue collar jobs to China and help contribute to the downfall of the middle class.

All knew very little was going to get done when the rebubs Sen.Mitch Mc
stated on the day after the president took office it was his job to make sure he was a one term President now that is the type of guy the country needs right?
If you need Joe so much invite him to dinner

As for fraud...I happen to have a Social Security card that was issued during my senior year of high school in 1968 or 1969. The words "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" appear at the bottom. Can you please identify which part of the government's promise that our S.S. numbers would never be used for identification is not fraudulent?
Joe R., do yourself and all of us a favor and cross check your facts. To suggest that there is a pile of money sitting somewhere other than in a stack of 'never-to-be-paid' IOUs is not only ludicrous but naive. It's hard to take you serious when you keep repeating that lie.
As for eliminating S.S. contribution caps...do you also support eliminating S.S. distribution caps? S.S. works on the premise of a payout that is tied to the pay-in, right? Or are you just using this as another "make the rich pay their fare share" screed?

Too funny. How does a country that operates on 33% deficit spending each year, with debt standing at over $15 trillion, and nothing that makes its creditors think it will ever stop deficit spending and pay them back given its debt is projected to rise to $23 trillion (as per the CBO) by 2020, ever repay its obligations? Additionally, with 10,000 baby-boomers retiring each day and joining the S.S. & Medicare roles, do you understand the concept of "unfunded liabilities?"

...and of course this had nothing to do with Republican House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell. . .there not part of the Government!

50 despite your persona we all know you are probably some white guy holing up in Mantaloking for the summer getting a good laugh. It is my considered goal to try to outpost you. Camden my Aunt Jennie.

the u.s. was downgraded because the moron tea bagers in congress, not even understanding what they were doing, would not raise the debt ceiling. Since the money was already spent it was just a formality but a necessary formality (and 50 cent - your schtick is so incredibly offensive - you are nothing but a disgusting racist)

Jennifer, the U.S. was downgraded because no plan has yet been offered that attempts to pay down our nearly $16 trillion dollars of debt. No bank will continue to raise your credit limit when when you owe it 10-times your annual salary and want to borrow more and more money while only paying the interest, which eventually you will be unable to pay, as well. That's the reason for the downgrade. Do the research.
But I wouldn't expect you to trouble yourself with something so insignificant as that when it's apparent to all that you have a different agenda and don't care to know the facts or just can't take them all in.
BTW, if you're going to insult people with slang terminology that the hard-left liberal media-clowns use, a term that is so sexually charged (do you even know what it means?) that it doesn't belong in the public discourse, at least learn how to spell it. You make it obvious that you are a pathetic result of the NJ public school systems.
I'd rather not post in this manner but I do make it a point to reply to people in the same manner in which they post so they will not fail to understand my point.

so Paul you are defending 50 cent and his offensive, racist posts by attacking me and my typos? You are wrong --- they downgraded after the tea party people refused to raise the debt ceiling and the money was already spent but those goons in Congress hadn't a clue. During a recession (culminating from the Bush years) you do not cut costs and lay off people. It is bad economic policy And what exactly is my slang terminology tea baggers??? I thought that is what these phony patriots were calling themselves or is it the Tea Party? Whatever, they are backed by the Koch brothers and many of them are idiots and the smart ones don't believe a word they say - they are the manipulators. So Paul or 50 cent or whoever you are - I am proud to be a Democrat fighting against the mean spirited, selfish, anti-woman Republicans
(and yes I know what Tea Baggers means - PERFECT DESCRIPTION)

Read much, Jennifer? My criticisms were directed to you. FYI...there was never any real danger that the U.S. would miss an interest payment. And there's the catch right there. How long do you think you can keep borrowing money when all you ever do is make interest payments and then borrow more money? What happens when your loan gets so big that you can't even make the interest payments? Try to think for yourself a little bit instead of shilling for the left wing media. See how easy it is to make insulting remarks? Fact is, Jennifer, when a person falls back on name-calling it's because that person has no real information to add to the conversation and reveals a lack of intelligence. So, go ahead and do all the name-calling you like, it's really helping to make your point.

...that's not true! Obama was working with Boehner behind the scenes to cut 4Trillion over 10 years. . .then Eric Cantor and the Tea Party got wind of it . . .and threw a monkey wench into the negotiations. . .

Spooner is 100% correct. The best chance of cutting trillions from future deficits was torpedoed by the right wing extremists in the House of Representatives who would not even support their own Speaker who was close to a deal with the President which would have cut trillions from future deficits. So if you want to vote out the people who killed the deal, get rid of the extremists in the House that would not compromise one penny.

FYI, a future deal that both sides will support will be very similar to what the President and the Speaker were working on.

Wow Joe, I didn't know that. - Ryan looks like Eddie Munster. Check it out. I am being serious. He should be ashamed of the crap he is spinning. Let them Tax the one percent, close the borders and get down to organizing some work programs. We on our end should stop buying foreign made bull crap and stop polluting with all of the damn water bottles. Off topic a little, I know but it is the truth.

I agree %100 I believe get the career politicians out..rotate,,,Get new blood in there..No matter what Party..

In a free society where the voters get to vote by secret ballot, regardless of whether they vote for or against a political party or individual, the voter’s choice reflects his/her personal values and dreams. A candidate can fool the voters once, but when that candidate is reelected over and over again, then that candidate surely represents the values of the majority of the voters. Perhaps the best way to begin correcting America’s problems is for the voter to take a long look in the mirror before voting again. It doesn’t take as much as one might believe for ‘we the people’ to become ‘them people.’

If Camden is in NJ is it not C.C's problem. How often do you think he thinks of that city or how many times has he visited it since being Gov?

...it was a start...now what you got. . .forced reductions with a lesser deficit! And here's more facts about the deficit...

...Republicans obliterating any trace of the Bush administration that told America there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and led us into a devastating war; turned a $5 trillion projected budget surplus into a $6 trillion deficit; gave the largest tax cut in a generation to the richest Americans in history...which contributed more too it; handed out a mountain of corporate welfare to the oil and gas industry, pharmaceutical companies, and military contractors like Halliburton (uniquely benefiting the vice president), Lockheed-Martin,etc; whose officials turned a blind eye to Wall Street shenanigans that led to the worst financial calamity since the Great Crash of 1929 and then persuaded Congress(including Paul Ryan voting for it) to bail out the Street with the largest taxpayer-funded giveaway of all time...Republicans when Bush was President didn't talk about the deficit. . .why was that?

...you can't deny those facts!

Since your clearly working as a pay-per-post guy feel free to respond to each of my emails individually. How's Winslow doing? Hot down there?

Filthy scent....
Spooner? Liar? 25 Trillion? If you want act like your version of an uneducated rapper, why don't get a token job with Fox News. Maybe you could stand in back of the Munster family candidates at the Republican convention with the other token imbeciles.

...you have to be ignorant or don't know how Government works. Obama can say anything. . .but it takes legislation to enact it into law. And from the very first day in office the Republican legislators goal was to insure Obama's defeat in 2012. . .They became known as the party of "NO"

...that's why they torpedoed the $4Trillion Boehner/Obama deal to reduce the deficit. Obama would have gotten the credit and that would have guaranteed his re-election. The Republicans could care less about your Camden. . .and the Washington Democrats are probably not much better since Clinton?

Munster Family I kind of looked at them at the start as Snow White
and the Seven Dwarfs during the first few debates.

lol

The afghans have killed over 6 soldiers this week, I hear no response from our commander and chief (Pres.)

An Afghan police officer shot and killed three U.S. Marines after sharing a meal with them before dawn Friday and then fled into the desolate darkness of southern Afghanistan, the third attack on coalition forces by their Afghan counterparts in a week.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-08-11/news/33153968_1_afghan-soldiers-afghan-forces-afghan-counterparts

You are not that far off several of Mittens advisers are recycled Bushies

...that's not true. . .over 4.4M jobs created!

I want his job ..unlimited vacation time

Nobody had a problem with Bush going to Texas all the time to CUT BRUSH
instead of listening to or reading his Presidential Dail Briefings.

Are you kidding me? Bush and Reagan took more vacations Now you are talking about Obama's vacations? Lame Reaching
And 50 cent you pulling our leg, brother????

Sorry to disappoint you but Unger and the article by Nutting, were deceptive. and were corrected

 It was spending to growth..  :   )

To check the claim, we have produced our own numbers by presidency going back to the Kennedy Administration, measuring annual spending growth in a number of ways. They are:
Nominal growth of total spending
Inflation-adjusted (real) growth of total spending
GDP-adjusted growth of total spending
Real growth of primary (non-interest spending)
Real growth of total spending excluding automatic stabilizers
Annual Spending Growth by Administration
  Total Spending Primary Spending Non-Stabilizer Spending
Administration Nominal Growth Real Growth GDP-Adjusted Growth Real Growth Real Growth
Kennedy/Johnson 8.2% 5.4% 0.6% 4.4% 5.6%
Nixon/Ford 10.5% 3.8% 0.9% 3.8% 3.4%
Carter 14.1% 2.8% 2.3% 2.7% -1.1%
Reagan 6.5% 2.6% -0.8% 0.6% 2.7%
Bush I 5.4% 1.5% 0.3% -2.3% 1.4%
Clinton 3.5% 0.9% -2.0% -0.6% 0.9%
Bush II 7.8% 5.2% 3.7% 4.5% 5.0%
Obama* 2.4% 0.3% -0.9% -1.4% -0.2%Sources: CBO, OMB, Bureau of Labor Statistics, CRFB calculations
*Uses President's budget spending for FY 2012 and 2013

"In terms of nominal and real total spending growth, the measures that Nutting used, President Obama does have the lowest growth" 

http://crfb.org/blogs/fiscal-fact-checker-how-much-has-spending-increased-under-president-obama

That's not true. Obama did attempt to address the deficit, but got railroaded by Boehner and his right party supporters like Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan...to name two!

OLIVER you need not look at the party , look at the persons resume..you keep voting for who.. lets see never ran ,owned operated or was in charge of anything..not a governor ,But he he was a community activists. was a freshman senator..you keep voting for him.. The best voter is an educated voter..pull out the abacus the only thing adding up is the debt & his spending..If colin powell ran i would vote for him ..Obama has no accomplishments , I did i forget something no jobs high employement false hopes , high debt ..Oh did forget that is the change he promised....

They say your wrong. You do have freedom of choice as long as they agree with your choice

Everyone gave him a chance .This is not his game..At any job you put a large company CEO in & he does what Obama & the board votes him again you can bet you will lose your job...So why put yourself in that position..Most of these people are sheep ..they dont think about there own future,your hanging your coat on a failure...His record proves it.....

No kidding Obama has put this country in the toilet since day one

http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/obama-toilet.jpg

You do know the union U.S. work force is under 12%.
The so called job creators still have the BUSH tax breaks
they wanted so where the jobs?

New blood he has been in Washing since he was 28 if
Mittens horse tapped it out that would make it 14 years
that is not new blood.

Paul Ryan is a two-bit phony! Ryan's hands have been involved with convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff and former House Leader Tom Delay. This guy has skeletons in the closet in Washington that will come out. . .

Romney said his health care plan would be a guide for the rest of the nation
that all should have some skin in the game and contribute to their health care plans
Now he in running away quicker than a Gold Medal sprinter.

Not if the unfair and unbalanced FOXY group have anything to
say in the matter. They will have their four or five neocons and
TPers on all against one dem and try to slant it their way just like
the other stations slant their shows. The regular media does not
have time to slant ploitical news like the cable shows because they
are busy reporting about the cat getting rescued out of a tree or
flooding near the Willowbrook Mall ( just like it has for the last 40 years)
not to mention the latest ethnic weekend parade no to say these parades
are not important

Glad that you at least except his is Hawaiian and an American citizen.

Oliver, While I realize we disagree, I appreciate your efforts to actually address the problems rather than the usual insulting and name-calling that tries to pass for comment here.
-- I don't quite understand your reduction of Congress plan. Are you suggesting three Reps from each state to the House regardless of state size? I'm not sure that would fly very well, especially with the larger states. The other problem is the smaller you make a governing body, aka, the Senate, the more power you deposit into each individual and thus the more possibility for corruption.
-- Yes, work out some way to retire Social Security. Make it a priority because it's a bust and we will never be able to sustain it at its current levels.
-- Censure...I'm not sure what that would accomplish.
-- Balanced Budget...Yes.
Gee, for disagreeing we certainly seem to agree on quite a bit.
Again, thanks for keeping it sane.

Paul

There are 435 in the house and they vote party line. So why do we need 435. We just need 1 per party -- presto. We will have party line voting. And the people of USA will not have to pay for the other 433 that dont think or count. They just trade their vote for some pork barrel. Just 2 senators will not cut it. We need three or 2 to break the fillibuster. We can save a lot of money.
Paul, I am tired for over 30 years they have done nothing except lewd material on Clinton and so on...in the library of congress. They passed a law prohibiting such material and they themselves dragged all that mud.
I am not too concerned which party. I am as livid when Charlie Wrangle does the trick on the people or Chief Justice RQuist does it. Democracy is broken. Founding fathers never fought for this mess. We may agree or disagree -- they came up with a solid vision for USA.
-- Social Security is fraud, ponzi and must be erased. I dont mind paying for my career but I want a drop dead date. My kids should not have to go through this govt sponsored ponzi.
-- Any public elected official if they do not perform there must be a consequence. We the people are not happy that they have squandered 30 years. Rotating them in and out does not appear to be working. So how do we communicate this in clear terms? Shame on all of them? Every one of them. There is no outcomes assesment.
-- Balanced Budget without exception -- is the beginning.

See, that's where you are missing it. Your contributions to S.S. are not tied to any promise of payment. Do the math, do your due diligence, do something but look it up and you'll find that that's the truth. It's not your money. If it sounds like a rip-off, you're right. Contrary to what a few on this site keep insisting, S.S. is a Ponzi scheme and a scheme that is nearing its breaking point. Forget about getting you money back because there is no money. What you pay in is used to pay the current recipients because their money was used to pay those who went before them.
BTW, we do not have a Revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

Me, me, me. Classic liberal and I bet a public employee, too. You really don't care if nothing was spent for a military and everyone else was taxed at 90% as long as you get yours. Me, me, me.

7 out, here are the options:
Continue to pay 10.2 if under dems win or 12.2 if reps win and get nothing when u retire -- there is nothing you can do --if there is no $$ and no one is willing to lend the US Govt to pay the interest to SS Trust..
if reps win more they will do such fine tricks as what gipper did... remember social security age got to 67
and if Scott Walker and Koch will have their way, Koch will buy/build all the funeral homes and Scott would pass a law that Soc Sec checks would go right to the funeral home. They might even convince some that it is a favor because survivors will not be hit with the bill.
The other option is to stop paying anymore -- write off the past...contributions and just dont make the future contributions to the same model.
Save for retirement through other means -- invest that into broad/sector etfs. Those who held on to the broad etfs have recovered back to pre-crisis levels.just not in us tsys? that is a waste of time while the printing press is plugged in.
German bonds, and other intl sov may be good. This should vehicle should disallow buying and selling or churning and absolutely no single stock positions. only basket securities in select sectors. Not even age based funds. they are churning a lot. you will end up with more than in any other scenario.

Romney wants to build at least 5 more ships then what the military requested
I guess the defense contractors are going heavy on Mittens. This Country
will always be #1 one in defense in the world. Sometimes you can spend the same amount as the previous year and still be funded properly

Because he needs to win Virginia, and they build ships in Virginia.

His rationale was laughable, that we had fewer ships than we did in the 1940's. As if one modern day frigate couldn't defeat the entire Imperial Japanese Navy of that era.

PS - he'll get a 2-3 points bounce from Ryan in Wisconsin. That's not close to enough to swing it. And if he does pull ahead in WI, he won't need it because that means he'll have moved ahead in FL, OH, PA, VA.

Ryan's selection, I am starting to think, is because Romney sees vulnerability with Obama and Catholics (could swing PA). So maybe. But I'd remind him Hillary tried that too and it didn't work well enough to win the primary.

Just look at the NY-26 election. That was a referendum on the Ryan plan. Didn't go so well.

Oliver: You have evidence that the election was "rigged"???? Did you or anyone else contact the FBI???? FYI, the losing candidate could have asked for a recount but since the margin of victory was so great, she did not.

Oliver It was those ballots again ..The hanging chad on the ballots When you vote for Obama check out his long list of accomplishments listed on a roll of charmin..

Charlie...still a ways to go but right now I think Obama is doing a little bit better with the electorial vote that he is with the popular vote (which had been very close up until this weeks polls.) Interesting thing everyone forgets about the 2000 elction with the focus on Florida is that Gore beat Bush in the popular vote by over half a million votes.

Bob

That was do or die election in 2008 and so the Supreme Court decided who was going to pull the trigger. NY-26 -- who cares...I am surprised they even counted it.
Real Democracy will dawn on USA when more than one party can contest in a election and this electoral college nonsense is erased and all votes are counted in 24 hours. No one is riding a pony to get to the capital no more. We do not need the electoral college. It is not even uniform some states all or nothing and others proportional.

Bob you can contact Al to find out about rigging.

Fitty Cent, I need help brother it is all yours take it over.

BTW, Fitty Cent, I know you are not anywhere near Camden. Folks from Camden do not give a rat's rearend for Camden. You do way too much for Camden. You cannot be from Camden. That is just fine,my man. I also feel like I am from Mars, sometimes. I even saw remote controlled car roll by, yDAY. You know what I mean.

I do agree with you there on the electoral vote ( laywers & probably lobbiests) get rid of it... The popular vote should be deciding..The electorial vote is not the peoples will...

Joe R, respectfully sir, do you think any private investment management firm can get away with the manifesto and charter of SSA? Will you invest if I open a fund where I will pay you with the funds I receive from others ...? Only a govt can do this? Leaving that aside -- what the fiduciary duty of any money manager. All of social security receipts are used to pay current recipients and buy US treasuries for the rest. Money just rots and actually loses value due to inflation.So it fails the fiduciary test.Real performance -- let us not even go there. It is just insane. Any one with any brain should ditch social security and demand for alternate programs. Past is sunk cost. we cannot get it back. We cannot renege on the promises made to WWII generation. So we must demand an end date for the robbery to stop. While I do not care for the money I paid 30+ years, I like the gov to give me an option for the remaining few years. At least some percentage for me to invest on my own. Nope, I do not want to have a FL Vaccation on the backs of my kids or your kids. I am happy to count the leaves in my backyard. Please explain how do you set a Ponzi and SS apart? Govt emblem, openly stated then...I will vote for Obama and I will insist that he tackle this headon if he is blessed enough.

Oh my God, finally the voice of reason Joe R.

BPF- just one question. . .how many good paying private sector jobs were created under George Bush with all that trickle down reduced tax economics, during his eight years in office. . .and now you want to sell us more of it. . . It Doesn't Work!

The government is a ponzi scheme

And therein lies the problem, Paul....we would rather have a "nice" guy leading our state as opposed to a "competent" guy. Either way, I'm not sharing a beer with any of them on a Saturday night so give me someone/anyone who can get the job done. Christie may be rough around the edges, but he managed to wake up the average New Jerseyan to the inequity between the public sector employee's benefits packages and the private sector employee's benefits packages. Thank you for opening up some eyes, Mr. Governor. The dirty little secret is out, and I for one am grateful that someone had the onions to say what I've been thinking for years.

It is truly sad that you seem to be intelligent yet you refuse to think for yourself. I did not have to quote an economist (liberal or conservative) to buttress my point. May I ask that you ponder some of my postings and address them? Could you tell me where I am wrong? I don't want to waste my time trying to persuade someone who will blindly quote an economist's point of view, as I could do that myself. Please think for yourself, and think of the continuing negative impact of running up our national debt. I would invite you to comment on that, not parrot someone else. I would like you to stick to objective data, as you did with SS.

So you can't answer what I posed, plus you cannot tell me where I am wrong. It is a shame that for all your colorful prose you seem content to answer the problems with our national debt by trashing the GOP and citing an ideology, rather than a reality. But I guess I would have to be content that, at a minimum, you have exposed yourself to be a left-wing ideologue, and have no regard for the hurting, struggling taxpaying families like mine who are trying to make ends meet everyday despite the endless taxation and other regulatory barriers placed in front of us. Our elderly need to be looked after, but how much of that could be done by family? How about giving taxpayers who care for their elderly parents a break? I'm sure you would ridicule that as "pie in the sky", too. As far as tuition assistance goes, that's why students can get loans or work/study programs, scholarships, and family. Yes, this is a reality we with families must deal with everyday. I am for assisting the elderly and disabled. I am in favor of temporarily helping the poor and those who happen to fall on hard times. But to support people who are able-bodied but don't want to work? People who are here illegally? No thanks. I have family who could better benefit from my toils and would rather pass it on to them. Obviously, you do not share that view. But i guess you got yours, and that is all that matters to you. FYI - Darwin was not an economist or an accountant.

Cut Congress House Representative Headcount from 435 to 2
Cut senate headcount from 100 to 3+ 1 (VP)
Cut Military spending on all expansionary items -- no cut to the servicemen and their benefits
Phase out Govt Ponzi Scheme aka Social Security. Current contributors 25% to pay the earlier contributors, the other 75% self directed program. No social security benefits to those who did not pay into the system for atleast 20 years. never more than what they earned per month in wages.
Most important, balanced budget amendment to the constitution. Without this some moron will take office and do all sort magic and throw us all in the hole again.
Force Gov Ponzi to sell all its US Treasury holdings and invest in other asset classes. This would reduce debt servicing load on the govt as well.
No reduction in medicaid or medicare. Allowing sick person to suffer eventually will end up in more expense not less.
Cut US Congress Representative Pension by half.
Cut US Congress Senator pension by 75%.
reduce Bush family pension from US Gov to 100K per annum.
reduce Clinton family pension from US Gov to 100K.
Claw back past salaries from Dick, Scalia and others who auctioned the USA -- Citizens united-- Impeach them ALL.
Allow people to pay to reduce the debt instead of tax.
Allow people to forego ponzi scheme payments to reduce the debt.
This would be my platform. I am openly liberal and I am proud of it. That is what makes me a human being.

If you think Mitt is out to help the middle class and give them relief than that is the second time you will be fooled.

L
I am certain about the middle class tax relief. Romney knows that the only way to create jobs is that all Americans benefit so the economy will grow. Do not listen to the fear and smear Obama rhetoric. When he was at Bain he took companies public and by doing so he created jobs and wealth. What is not understood is as these companies went public the workers on the floor of these companies and is the warehouses received founders stock and awards. They went from living pay check to pay check to being in the 1% so to speak. He knows that how you treat and reward people is how you succeed. That same principle is the underpinning of tax policies and for that matter social policies. Sharing wealth creation is what we need to get this economy going, not government welfare and debt that will destroy our children's future and this wonderful country.

There was only on Great Repub. Communicator and he started out a Union Loving DEM. Maybe you did not notice Mittens insult the world tour a few weeks ago. They had to bring him back so he did not blow the election prior to their week in Tampa.
Do you think people that are worth billions like the Koch brothers or the owner of
Vegas casinos want to rid the system of Tax loopholes? Why have they alone given millions and millions? Go and rewatch the
Repub. debates and see what true TP's ,neocons an rebubs think of Romey
esp. since he was the first to bring in OBROMNEYCARE just ask his spokswoman
or look up what she said about health care last week. If you want 4 more Bush years
then vote for Mittens he has brought in a number of Bushes old pals to help
him.

Bain Capital has a mixed record when it comes to creating jobs. . .that was not their goal. . .their goal was to make money for their investors. . .how you moralize them is just hogwash. . .they were in business to make money. . .and even when he was running the Utah Olympics. .. he was still using his Bain connections back then to hawk business from those companies. He tried to secure a deal with Staples as a supplier?

George,
Now that was not very enlightening. Romney went to Israel and received standing ovations as our important ally was finally treated with respect that they had not been given by Obama. Romney began the process of healing the relationships with Israel and Poland caused by the damaging policies of Obama. Yes Reagan saw the light and left the democratic party as he evolved his views. Romney is not even close to Bush at any level. Bush and Obama were and are big spenders and deficit creators.

Spooner,
As Bain took companies public it was to reward stakeholders defines as those who invested $ and those (employees) who invested sweat. All benefited and Staples as you point out was a big winner as was Home Depot and on and on. Now you are correct to say some companies that Romney tried to turn around did not make its as they were to far gone to save due to many reasons such as global competition ie China, or government policies or whatever. Net net he was a job creator.

Concerned- the bottom line. . .Mitt Romney was a capitalist...I have no qualms there. . .but to use his adventures in capitalism to rationalize and moralize being President . . .I draw the line! Would have preferred Jon Huntsman than him. . .but that's water under the bridge now. The man had more class than Romney ever will?

Hunstman Chemicals is an interesting company o hold up as an example of success. We need the experience that Romney and Ryan have. Success in the private sector and success as a big legislative thinker whose bipartisan budget is being attacked by Obama. Well at least Ryan had the ideas and courage to put a proposal on the table for long term reform of entitlements. Ultimately all his ideas will be melded with Romney's vision and the the legislative compromises will be necessary to pass reforms, but these two leaders can get it done. Moderate Bipartisan Majority for America!

L
That is Obama fear and smear rhetoric. Do not fall for it. Romney gave away his inheritance that he received form his Father to Charity. His wealth was created by his hard work. He became wealthy as did so many more people through his leadership. He paid taxes as required by law as he made his money. His monies are now in a blind trust and the trust on his behalf is paying taxes as required for investment income. That money is spread properly to reduce risk, which is a common sense approach to maintaining ones savings.

And stashed away in Swiss bank and offshore account.
the true american way right

Concerned,

Do you recall Swift Boat Lies.What goes around comes around. Dont worry lot of billionaires and oil companies are waiting to blast our air waves -- thanks to Citizens United.

Imagine on a smaller scheme doing that to your check book,,,You would be bankrupt..They cant do basic math in Washington..

Gov made a lot of money in the deal and on Citi and will make a lot more on AIG. On GM since they pay tax Obama the brilliant also laid the foundation for steady stream of tax revenue. But then you have to do the math right. Liberal voting for Obama. Not swayed by hypocritical rant from the Ryan and his surrogate Mitt.

How much more would taxpayers lose if the auto companies were allowed to go bankrupt! Millions of autoworkers, auto parts suppliers and interconnected industries would have thrown the millions of workers on the unemployment lines. Retirees in these industries would have lost their pensions which would have been picked up at 65% by the federal government. Now do you see the can of worms you opened up! By letting the U.S. auto industry fail, the cost of the bailout loans would have been 10 times greater. Besides, it was George Bush who first agreed to bailout money for the auto industries. So this wasn't a democrat/republican solution. It was an American solution for an American problem.

Crazy----If I'm not mistaken, a very healthy chunk of the bailout went toward paying pension recipients of the auto industry rather than revitalizing the actual companies. We have a problem here when a president & Congress can pick winners and losers. Ford didn't need the bailout and they've managed to weather the storm. GM should have filed for bankruptcy protection just like any other company finding itself in trouble does. There are lots of hairdressers and restaurants falling on hard times. Are you prepared to spend your tax dollars bailing them out as well or are union-based corporations the only ones worthy of salvaging? Hmmmm....I wonder why the President would select one over the other?

Donna: old GM went bankrupt. . .ask anybody who owned their stock.

Spooner - All the more reason to let nature take its course.

MT- you want to debate the deficit. . .we might as well drink the kool-aid now. . .what's that expression. . .we are our own worst enemies. I could tell you unequivocally: that who ever gets in. . .next year the deficit will be debated. . . and remember Obama is a policy wonk too. He did go out on a limb with Medicare when he tried proposing the $4Trillion deficit reduction with Boehner?

If I understand your post - You are saying we need to give the middle-class a tax break. If so, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I also agree with the Balanced Budget Amendment. Your last comment is the best, in my opinion. Vote for the person, not the party. Good job.

Eric
we need both. stop the trickle down nonsense. Obama has been giving $$ to people to stimulate the economy and its failed. We need middle class tax relief and close tax loop holes that both parties have given to lobbyists. Obama is no capable of this as it requires leadership. Romney can and will get it done.

I agree.

You know Teach I'm not that up on national politics, the budget, and appropriations and I can't recommend specifics. I think that's for our representatives to decide. My point is simply that they need to DO IT. We can't keep going like this. Everyone seems to agree that to have the sequester take effect will be a disaster for this country but no one is doing anything about it. Having watched the debate on the sequester on CSPAN there was ONE congressman that made specific recommendations for consideration ... extending the age of eligibility for Medicare and Social Security. He'll probably lose his seat in the upcoming elections. But at least he TRIED to address the problem. As soon as he was finished speaking the "debate" went back to partisan politics and finger pointing across the aisle.

I have a hunch you have some ideas in that regard, so as they say on the "hill" I'll yield the rest of my time to the Math Teacher.

Well that's probably what we're going to get unless we can find a cure for the dysfunction of our government. I do agree with the Dems about not reinstating the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest. I've known a few and they're all about increasing their own net worth. That's how they got to be so filthy rich in the first place. And I think we need to curtail some of our foreign spending and start reinvesting some of that money in our own infasturcture and economy.

Nice talking to ya.

Rufus,
You need to read more to become better informed. Both Romney and Ryan have a track record of created bi patartisan compromises. Romney did as Gov of Mass and Ryan has done it in the Congress. Neither one are war mongering but thye will have a strong foreign policy and military as the threats from Iran etc are real. We cannot survive as a society when we spend a trillion more each year than we collect. Our children's future is at stake. Finally Romney does not have a trust fund and gave away 100% of his inheritance that he received from his Dad. He is a self made person.

Romney is not self made. He enjoyed an upper class upbringing which included private school and Harvard University. I also don't know how either he or Ryan can be taken seriously as budget cutters when the former was by his own admission a progressive Governor and the latter has supported every bailout and debt ceiling increase that has come up the pike. This is a ticket with absolutely no credibility, that only offers empty rhetoric when we needed substance. The GOP could have done much better than this. WIth candidates this weak, they are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory like they do all too often.

Seriously, Rufus? Are you upset that Romney has an education and was raised in an upper middle class family? Dear God....he also ran venture capital companies! OH the humanity!!! Perhaps we should entrust the running of our nation to a junior college drop out who has no business experience but came from the poor side of the tracks in order to suit some disturbed mindset of political worthiness. Better still, how about a multi-racial candidate who served less than one term as Senator, whose claim to fame is as a community organizer with questionable associates and who never held a private sector job (outside of community organizing)? Is occupational success any longer a virtue or is the fact that someone has wealth only perceived at the expense of someone else not having it? My parents are immigrants and I was always taught that in this great nation, we create our own good fortune through hard work....and never with outstretched hands.

Donna, I agree. I wonder if Rufus needed an operation he would think the same way. Just get anybody off the street on the poor side of the tracks to operate on him, just because. Wouldn't you want someone with the best education, who went through medical school operating on you. I know, I would! Rofus, Yes, some people have a better life, they were born into money, which makes things easier. It is what it is, you are dealt the cards that are given...It is up to you to change things you don't like... Yes, some are just naturally lucky, others plan out their life and make sacrifices. Yes, some individuals had it easier because who they were born into. In the end, it is up to you to make things happen for you. Change yourself, others have. There is some that had it hard from the day they were born and risen up past all those that are stilling complaining how hard they had it.

For right now, extend. Later cut them further, along with cuts to entitlements. I beleive our representatives do not hear this because the working class part of "we the people" do not contact our elected representatives to tell them how we feel, and hold them accountable with our vote. I do not beleive term limits is the answer. A politician will listen to his/her constituents, especially when they vote. It appears to me that the biggest voice right now are those getting entitlements, and perhaps many of them have been duped into thinking if they don't vote for a particular party, then their check will go away. As far as the term limits, again, the term limit is them not being voted back into office if they do not do the right thing by the majority of the voters. Working people must become the majority of the voters again as it was decades ago, in my opinion.

No Mittens will have to debate the President

John

There is no need to wait. Paul claimed, he proposed his tax cuts for his Koch buddies funded by the cuts in entitlement programs (read on the backs of seniors), because the President also proposed those cuts.
what else do we know. Now we know why he is the pick. I cannot wait to see synchronized Romney-Ryan Flips.
This is the same guy that signed off on an unfunded war without any plan or exit strategy, prescription drug pandering to the seniors, and 2 Trillion Tax cut for the Koch brothers.
Obama the one with a great vision. Middle Income Savior. I am enjoying my 2% cut in Ponzi Scheme tax. Are you? That is Brilliant. He just undid the gippers nasty trick delaying the eligibility year -- The one.

I think I saw him in Wawa yesterday. Sorry for the sassy comment, but really?!?! This nation can barely distinguish between two well funded candidates. Researching a third party candidate, let alone voting for him? Not going to happen. Americans are not politically astute. They know Democrats - good; Republicans - bad (or the opposite). It's hot or cold water. Tepid just is a concept beyond the American intellect. Unfortunate, but true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#7

Math Teacher
Doesn't matter. Republicans will filibuster every good bill in the Senate just to try and make Obama look bad . This borders on treason to the American people.

MT- your having delusions if you think your going to erase $16T deficit anytime soon. . .but listen you carry on. . .

Joe R.....
Just to add to your thoughts
Ayn Rand, who seems to be Paul Ryan's hero, praised William Hickman who was a sociopathic child killer.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/19/968385/-Hero-or-Monster-Ayn-Rand-and-William-Hickman
For one who embraced the me me me ideology, she ended up USING medicare and social security in the last part of her life.
http://www.alternet.org/story/149721/ayn_rand_railed_against_government_benefits%2C_but_grabbed_social_security_and_
Paul Ryan REQUIRES his staff and interns to read her warped material.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/08/13/paul-ryan-is-far-from-an-ayn-rand-prodigy
This is what the current Republicans are all about. It is up to sane voters to educate people with the facts, before we end up with these monsters who don't care about other people around them. Ryan and his type are dangerous to the rest of us.